Sunday, November 21, 2010
A Few Hazara and Sindhi People with our DNA-Who Are They?
It has been found that a few people of the Hazara tribe of India and a few people of the Sindhi tribe of Pakistan carry our M378 SNP of our Q1b1 haplogroup. Who are they? Could we be connected to these groups?
My latest theory has been that we come from Persian people, the land of Queen Esther. Are these people connected in any way to that land? How did the Jews ever happen to go to Persia? Before I had discovered that the Jews of Samaria (Judea and Samaria) were carried away as slaves to Iraq and then to Persia, most likely making up Queen Esther's Jewish population.
Pakistan has recently been created for the Muslim people living in India. Not all but many Muslims have moved there. It was not an empty land. The Sindhi tribe have lived there with settlements going back to 7,000 BCE. From these people developed the Indus Valley civilization around 3,000 BCE which rivaled the contemporary civilizations of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia in both size and scope with half a million population at the height with well-planned cities and sewer systems.
Now the Hazara were a branch of the Mongols like Ghengis Khan. They actually were in Afghanistan and were the remnant in western Asia of land conquered by Chinggis Khan in the early 13th century ACE. This is why they are known to have had high cheekbones and sparse beards. As it turns out, "Hazara" is from the Persian word "hazara, meaning "thousand," referring to to earlier Mongols called ming or minggan or thousand. These Hazaras are descended from Mongols who entered what is now the Hazarajat in central Afghanistan at various times between 1229 AD and 1337 AD. In 1229 a Mongol army was sent to the west. A part of it was stationed in the region of Ghazni until 1241. In 1256 a grandson of Chinggis Khan, Hulagu, marched west against the Muslim caliphs of Baghdad, and his descendants, the Ilkhans, ruled Persia for nearly 100 years. Many times troops stationed in NE Persia revolted against the Ilkhans. Possibly some of the rebels hid in the central mountains of Afghanistan.
The largest number of Hazaras came from Transoxiana, an area north of the Oxus where Chinggis Khan left to his son Chagatai. At the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th centuries their armies went across the Hindu Kush and into India. The Ilkhanates fell in 1337 ACE. The Chagataians lived there and became the ancestors of the Hazara.
In 1380 ACE another Chagataian, Timur, invaded Persia and claimed the provinces of Kandahar, Ghazni and Kabul. some of his descendants and men remained when the Timurids returned to Samarkand in 1447. Another Timurid, Babur, invaded Afghanistan at the beginning of the 16th century. By then the Hazaras were a distinct people living where they were when Pakistan was created.
Who conquered this civilization of Hazara? The Persian Achaemenid Empire in the 6th Century BCE. They were conquered again in the late 300s BCE by a mixed army led by Alexander the Great. They kept it for about 20 years. When Alexander died it was under Seleucid rule. It was traded to the Mauryan Empire led by Chandragupta in 305 BCE. Their rule ended in 185 BCE when the last king was overthrown by the Sunga Dynasty. Greek rule returned when Demetrius I of Bactria led an invasion of India and annexed most of the NW lands, including Sindh. He was later defeated and killed but his descendants continued to rule Sindh as the Indo-Greek kingdom. Many converted to Buddhism.
In the 100s BCE, Scythian tribes invaded the Indo-Greek lands. They came through Sindh and became known as Indo-Scythians or later as Western Straps. Then the Tocharian Kushan Empire annexed Sindh by the 1st century ACE. The Kushans were Zoroastrian and tolerant of the Buddhist traditions.
Again the Persians were on the scene in the mid 200s ACE with their Sassanid Empire and defeated the Kushan Empire. They installed vassals known as Kushanshahs. They were defeated by the Kidarites in the late 300s. By the late 400s, the Hephthalite tribes known as the Indo-Hephthalites or Huns broke through the Gupta Emprie's NW borders and overran much of Northern and Western India. Sindh became independent under the Rai Dynasty around 478 ACE. They in turn were overthrown by Chachar of Alor around 632. It never ends.
Which all tells me that there were a lot of Empires that I have never studied. With all this warring, babies must have been born. Our line of Goldfoot as well as the other Q1b1's must have come from this group somehow. Otherwise, why would we have found that we had something in common with the Hazara and Sindhi tribes of India and Pakistan? Isn't it possible that we became involved with Queen Esther's Jewish population at one time or another while there?
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh
http://boozers.fortunecity.com/jerusalem/47/History/history.html
My latest theory has been that we come from Persian people, the land of Queen Esther. Are these people connected in any way to that land? How did the Jews ever happen to go to Persia? Before I had discovered that the Jews of Samaria (Judea and Samaria) were carried away as slaves to Iraq and then to Persia, most likely making up Queen Esther's Jewish population.
Pakistan has recently been created for the Muslim people living in India. Not all but many Muslims have moved there. It was not an empty land. The Sindhi tribe have lived there with settlements going back to 7,000 BCE. From these people developed the Indus Valley civilization around 3,000 BCE which rivaled the contemporary civilizations of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia in both size and scope with half a million population at the height with well-planned cities and sewer systems.
Now the Hazara were a branch of the Mongols like Ghengis Khan. They actually were in Afghanistan and were the remnant in western Asia of land conquered by Chinggis Khan in the early 13th century ACE. This is why they are known to have had high cheekbones and sparse beards. As it turns out, "Hazara" is from the Persian word "hazara, meaning "thousand," referring to to earlier Mongols called ming or minggan or thousand. These Hazaras are descended from Mongols who entered what is now the Hazarajat in central Afghanistan at various times between 1229 AD and 1337 AD. In 1229 a Mongol army was sent to the west. A part of it was stationed in the region of Ghazni until 1241. In 1256 a grandson of Chinggis Khan, Hulagu, marched west against the Muslim caliphs of Baghdad, and his descendants, the Ilkhans, ruled Persia for nearly 100 years. Many times troops stationed in NE Persia revolted against the Ilkhans. Possibly some of the rebels hid in the central mountains of Afghanistan.
The largest number of Hazaras came from Transoxiana, an area north of the Oxus where Chinggis Khan left to his son Chagatai. At the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th centuries their armies went across the Hindu Kush and into India. The Ilkhanates fell in 1337 ACE. The Chagataians lived there and became the ancestors of the Hazara.
In 1380 ACE another Chagataian, Timur, invaded Persia and claimed the provinces of Kandahar, Ghazni and Kabul. some of his descendants and men remained when the Timurids returned to Samarkand in 1447. Another Timurid, Babur, invaded Afghanistan at the beginning of the 16th century. By then the Hazaras were a distinct people living where they were when Pakistan was created.
Who conquered this civilization of Hazara? The Persian Achaemenid Empire in the 6th Century BCE. They were conquered again in the late 300s BCE by a mixed army led by Alexander the Great. They kept it for about 20 years. When Alexander died it was under Seleucid rule. It was traded to the Mauryan Empire led by Chandragupta in 305 BCE. Their rule ended in 185 BCE when the last king was overthrown by the Sunga Dynasty. Greek rule returned when Demetrius I of Bactria led an invasion of India and annexed most of the NW lands, including Sindh. He was later defeated and killed but his descendants continued to rule Sindh as the Indo-Greek kingdom. Many converted to Buddhism.
In the 100s BCE, Scythian tribes invaded the Indo-Greek lands. They came through Sindh and became known as Indo-Scythians or later as Western Straps. Then the Tocharian Kushan Empire annexed Sindh by the 1st century ACE. The Kushans were Zoroastrian and tolerant of the Buddhist traditions.
Again the Persians were on the scene in the mid 200s ACE with their Sassanid Empire and defeated the Kushan Empire. They installed vassals known as Kushanshahs. They were defeated by the Kidarites in the late 300s. By the late 400s, the Hephthalite tribes known as the Indo-Hephthalites or Huns broke through the Gupta Emprie's NW borders and overran much of Northern and Western India. Sindh became independent under the Rai Dynasty around 478 ACE. They in turn were overthrown by Chachar of Alor around 632. It never ends.
Which all tells me that there were a lot of Empires that I have never studied. With all this warring, babies must have been born. Our line of Goldfoot as well as the other Q1b1's must have come from this group somehow. Otherwise, why would we have found that we had something in common with the Hazara and Sindhi tribes of India and Pakistan? Isn't it possible that we became involved with Queen Esther's Jewish population at one time or another while there?
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindh
http://boozers.fortunecity.com/jerusalem/47/History/history.html
Labels: dna, Hazara trib of India, Q1b1, Sindhi tribe of Pakistan
Goldfoot's Latest dna Results
The latest results of findings of our dna testing shows that our Q's started out 20,000 years ago in Siberia. It's found that in the test we have a SNP of M242.
Then 12,000 years ago our dna branched to the Western Hemisphere and developed a SNP of P36.2.
At a later date a small % of our dna was found in the Hazara tribe in India and in the Sindhi tribe of Pakistan with a SNP of M378.
At a later date in time it is found that a few people have the SNP L245. This comes at a later date from M378. Two of our people tested have the L272 and L315 which is located in the Mediteranean area in the past few hundred years. I don't know what the Goldfoot line is as yet.
This all shows that we were not a branch from Khazaria. Somehow our Ashkenazi Jewish ancestors got to Eastern Europe to join up with other Jews living there. What we are waiting for is the finding of a SNP unique for the Ashkenazi Jewish Q. It looks like the scientists are getting close.
Reference: Dave Howard with information from Rebekah Canada and Alissandro Biondo and others from the recent Group Administrators' Conference in Houston, Texas by FamilyTreedna.
Then 12,000 years ago our dna branched to the Western Hemisphere and developed a SNP of P36.2.
At a later date a small % of our dna was found in the Hazara tribe in India and in the Sindhi tribe of Pakistan with a SNP of M378.
At a later date in time it is found that a few people have the SNP L245. This comes at a later date from M378. Two of our people tested have the L272 and L315 which is located in the Mediteranean area in the past few hundred years. I don't know what the Goldfoot line is as yet.
This all shows that we were not a branch from Khazaria. Somehow our Ashkenazi Jewish ancestors got to Eastern Europe to join up with other Jews living there. What we are waiting for is the finding of a SNP unique for the Ashkenazi Jewish Q. It looks like the scientists are getting close.
Reference: Dave Howard with information from Rebekah Canada and Alissandro Biondo and others from the recent Group Administrators' Conference in Houston, Texas by FamilyTreedna.
Labels: Ashkenazi Jewish Q, dna
Wednesday, November 17, 2010
The Surname: Goldfoot
The Austrian decree of 1787 stipulated the use of family names by Jews, specifically limiting the choice of given names to biblical names. This law was abolished in Bohemia on August 11, 1836. Also, the Prussian government attempted to limit the choice of Jewish family names. The law was subsequently revoked. So we may have received our surname in 1787. Jews had to buy their names.
American Surnames: "Favorites with the Jews are the "Gold" names. An occupation of medieval Jews was the lending of money at interest and this being combined with other work of the goldsmith made the German goldschmidt. Some are combined with place names as Goldberg. Other Gold names were formed by linking another word to Gold, chiefly German names as Goldfinger. " So, our surname of Goldfoot must have been picked in Germany/Austria. It evidently came from Germany/Austria as there are Goldfoots who are not Jewish and of a different haplogroup of dna, so they are not related to us. The Jewish migration did go to Germany and then on north to Eastern Europe, so we were in that group.
Only a handful of Jews were permitted to live in Russia before the Russian Revolution. Until then, we were all in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova and the Baltics. But you probably know this. from Barry Zwick, in DNA.
The 1905 Russian Revolution was a wave of mass political and social unrest that spread through vast areas of the Russian Empire. Some of it was directed against the government, while some was undirected. It included terrorism, worker strikes, peasant unrest, and military mutinies. My grandfather, Nathan, had come to the States just before this event. I believe he lived in Telsiai, Lithuania before he emigrated even though he had said, "Russia" on the 1910 census for his home. This had become a part of the Pale of Settlement of Russia where Jews were confined.
American Surnames: "Favorites with the Jews are the "Gold" names. An occupation of medieval Jews was the lending of money at interest and this being combined with other work of the goldsmith made the German goldschmidt. Some are combined with place names as Goldberg. Other Gold names were formed by linking another word to Gold, chiefly German names as Goldfinger. " So, our surname of Goldfoot must have been picked in Germany/Austria. It evidently came from Germany/Austria as there are Goldfoots who are not Jewish and of a different haplogroup of dna, so they are not related to us. The Jewish migration did go to Germany and then on north to Eastern Europe, so we were in that group.
Only a handful of Jews were permitted to live in Russia before the Russian Revolution. Until then, we were all in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova and the Baltics. But you probably know this. from Barry Zwick, in DNA.
The 1905 Russian Revolution was a wave of mass political and social unrest that spread through vast areas of the Russian Empire. Some of it was directed against the government, while some was undirected. It included terrorism, worker strikes, peasant unrest, and military mutinies. My grandfather, Nathan, had come to the States just before this event. I believe he lived in Telsiai, Lithuania before he emigrated even though he had said, "Russia" on the 1910 census for his home. This had become a part of the Pale of Settlement of Russia where Jews were confined.
Labels: Goldfoot, Names in Austria
Wednesday, November 03, 2010
Goldfoot: From Persia ? to Lithuania
Goldfoot is a German name, the German form is Goldfuss or Goldfus. On my Goldfoot line at ftdna I have Goldfoots that are R1b1b2 from Germany, but they are not Jewish nor related to us. I have found Goldfoots at the LDS Morman geneology library with first names of English or German kings and queens, not biblical Jewish names. So I have a good feeling that we were in Germany long ago.
I have always been told and have read that Jews entered Germany first and then later migrated north to Poland, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia,Galicia, etc. Our Q1b1 could have migrated to Germany from Persia somehow. Jewish Roman soldiers have been mentioned in some of my references. My R1b1b2 Robinson great grandfather, a very Yankee American (not Jewish) with a history of his family coming to the states on the ship after the Mayflower, is found to have a rare haplotype in that his dys#393 is a 12 and not a 13, showing his line came from Iberia or further Eastward. It’s possible that his line was a part of the Roman soldiers brought to England and that they weren’t Roman but slaves captured and trained. As I think about it, the Roman army would be one way of transporting people all around the known world, so not all Roman soldiers were Italian.
The history of Jews in Germany goes back to 321 CE with the emperor Constantine who issued regulations which show the existence of an organized Jewish community with rabbis and elders in Cologne. Probably Jews went into other cities as well. It is even thought that there were Jewish soldiers in the Roman garrisons.
Persecution of Jews started in 1012.
Our ancestors may have missed the Crusaders who massacred Jews throughout the Rhineland and nearby places of the 1096 CE period or maybe not. That could be what caused them to flee northward to Eastern Europe. There were massacres in 1298, 1336 and 1348/49 at the time of the Black Death which Jews were accused of creating. So we had many reasons to leave Germany. Around the end of the Middle Ages Jews were banished from larger German cities.
I'm taking the supposition that our ancestor could have come from Persia as a possibility. Armies, trading, and the many persecutions can be causes for migration to Germany. from there it is well known how we got to Eastern Europe. At least Persia had a large Jewish population that we could have started from.
I have always been told and have read that Jews entered Germany first and then later migrated north to Poland, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia,Galicia, etc. Our Q1b1 could have migrated to Germany from Persia somehow. Jewish Roman soldiers have been mentioned in some of my references. My R1b1b2 Robinson great grandfather, a very Yankee American (not Jewish) with a history of his family coming to the states on the ship after the Mayflower, is found to have a rare haplotype in that his dys#393 is a 12 and not a 13, showing his line came from Iberia or further Eastward. It’s possible that his line was a part of the Roman soldiers brought to England and that they weren’t Roman but slaves captured and trained. As I think about it, the Roman army would be one way of transporting people all around the known world, so not all Roman soldiers were Italian.
The history of Jews in Germany goes back to 321 CE with the emperor Constantine who issued regulations which show the existence of an organized Jewish community with rabbis and elders in Cologne. Probably Jews went into other cities as well. It is even thought that there were Jewish soldiers in the Roman garrisons.
Persecution of Jews started in 1012.
Our ancestors may have missed the Crusaders who massacred Jews throughout the Rhineland and nearby places of the 1096 CE period or maybe not. That could be what caused them to flee northward to Eastern Europe. There were massacres in 1298, 1336 and 1348/49 at the time of the Black Death which Jews were accused of creating. So we had many reasons to leave Germany. Around the end of the Middle Ages Jews were banished from larger German cities.
I'm taking the supposition that our ancestor could have come from Persia as a possibility. Armies, trading, and the many persecutions can be causes for migration to Germany. from there it is well known how we got to Eastern Europe. At least Persia had a large Jewish population that we could have started from.
Labels: Eastern Europe, migration, Persia, Roman soldiers
Disclaimer on our Persian Origins for Goldfoot
About Goldfoot dna: they have discovered some new SNPs and we are now Q1b1*. These later SNPs only go back only about 500-600 years.The first Ashkenazi Jewish people to be Q1b1* probably lived 500 to 600 years ago. That would be about 1400 AD.When you go back further in time you are not talking about our people.That is way after the Khazars.Our group had nothing to do with Samaria. -from Dave Howard, leader in our Q1b1 group.
That would take us to our connection with Ian Goldfoot's family tree. I've been trying to go back farther. According to another of our leaders of group Q1b, our possible origin could have been Persia, among a few others mentioned. If we go back far enough, we all came out of Africa, but I'm not interested in going back that far. I would like to establish possible places Jews could have been from and see if there was any connection to Israel/Judea. It does get complicated.
That would take us to our connection with Ian Goldfoot's family tree. I've been trying to go back farther. According to another of our leaders of group Q1b, our possible origin could have been Persia, among a few others mentioned. If we go back far enough, we all came out of Africa, but I'm not interested in going back that far. I would like to establish possible places Jews could have been from and see if there was any connection to Israel/Judea. It does get complicated.
Labels: Persia, SNP's Q1b1
Tuesday, November 02, 2010
Our Two Goldfoot Lines, Ian and David
Ian and David Goldfoot have been tested with Ydna and are found to be connected.
At 24 generations back or about 600 years ago we had a 99.98% chance of coming from the same man. That takes us back to the year 1410. We lack the paper trail connecting us, though we both have a Chaim Goldfoot (goldfus) on our tree. My Chaim was born in 1850 while Ian's was born in 1867.
Through our Q1 b dna, we all who belong to this this haplogroup, are connected to one man about 700-900 years ago. We share this rare DNA from our paternal ancestor found in Europe, Iran and Armenia. No one else carries these exact genes. He may have been Jewish and lived somewhere between modern Germany and the Ukraine, or even maybe he was a Persian or Armenian. Our ancestor had a genetic mutation called M378 so most of the men in this group have the same genetic mutation found after more testing.
Our group has about 200+ men tested. We are the only Q1b found in Europe.
We make up about 5% of the total Jewish population. I'm putting money on us coming from Persia. If you remember the story of Queen Esther and King Ahashueros, Esther, or Hadassah, as she was named, was part of a large Jewish population there. She was picked in a beauty pageant to be the King's next wife. It was she who stopped a holocaust of all the Jews being killed by an edict of Haman, who hated Jews. The king didn't even know Hadassah was Jewish, but after she fasted, only eating seeds to gain the courage to speak to him about her possible fate, put a stop to it and hung Hamen and his sons. So since we know of this Jewish contingent in Persia, I think our chances of coming from this group is pretty good.
Reference on DNA: Barry Zwick
At 24 generations back or about 600 years ago we had a 99.98% chance of coming from the same man. That takes us back to the year 1410. We lack the paper trail connecting us, though we both have a Chaim Goldfoot (goldfus) on our tree. My Chaim was born in 1850 while Ian's was born in 1867.
Through our Q1 b dna, we all who belong to this this haplogroup, are connected to one man about 700-900 years ago. We share this rare DNA from our paternal ancestor found in Europe, Iran and Armenia. No one else carries these exact genes. He may have been Jewish and lived somewhere between modern Germany and the Ukraine, or even maybe he was a Persian or Armenian. Our ancestor had a genetic mutation called M378 so most of the men in this group have the same genetic mutation found after more testing.
Our group has about 200+ men tested. We are the only Q1b found in Europe.
We make up about 5% of the total Jewish population. I'm putting money on us coming from Persia. If you remember the story of Queen Esther and King Ahashueros, Esther, or Hadassah, as she was named, was part of a large Jewish population there. She was picked in a beauty pageant to be the King's next wife. It was she who stopped a holocaust of all the Jews being killed by an edict of Haman, who hated Jews. The king didn't even know Hadassah was Jewish, but after she fasted, only eating seeds to gain the courage to speak to him about her possible fate, put a stop to it and hung Hamen and his sons. So since we know of this Jewish contingent in Persia, I think our chances of coming from this group is pretty good.
Reference on DNA: Barry Zwick
